The opinionated ramblings and muses of a weary web victim.

Looks like Lance wasn't dealing off the top of the deck.

Dang it ...so disappointing.... even IF cycling 'invented' the art of drug cheating....


Comments (Page 2)
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on Aug 24, 2012

First off the USADA has absolutely zero authority to strip Lance of any of his Tour de France wins nor anything else except perhaps his 2000 Olympic bronze medal. The UCI is the international governing body of cycling and in fact has required the USADA to present it's evidence to them and they will decide what, if anything, will be done regarding Lance's Tour de France and other cycling titles.

Secondly Lance has never failed a drug test nor has any of these charges ever been proven in a court of law. All Lance did was not agree to give up his legal rights and have his case settled via binding arbitration by an arbiter of the USADA's choosing. If the USADA had a legitimate case against Lance then they would have no compunction against proving it in a court of law. The fact that they haven't done so proves to me that the USADA has no legitimate case against Armstrong and is left with nothing but innuendo and supposition.

Refusing to agree to arbitration from an organization that has zero authority in the sport of cycling is nowhere near an admission of guilt, it's simply a refusal to participate in a farce. As far as giving up is concerned let's first see if the USADA even bothers to present its case to the UCI. If it does I doubt Lance will not take the opportunity to defend himself.

on Aug 24, 2012

Zubaz
It's also possible that he didn't dope and that he's just tired of fighting a fight he can never win.

He survived SO MANY investigations. Why don't they just lay off him?

Kantok
An international sports committee getting something wrong?  Never.... 

He may have cheated, but there's a sizable chance that he didn't.  

Correct.

Innocent until proven guilty. They have not done that despite endless tries.

USADA? More bureaucrats selling their raison d'etre. 


Quoting Wizard1956, reply 9even if it was a last standHow many last stands is a guy supposed to have?  He's gone through multiple investigations since he first won.  Each one found him clean.  Now what?  One more . .and then one more . . and then what?  One more?

It's not how I'd want to live my life.  At some point I might say, "I know I won and I won clean.  I've made money and done a lot of good with it and my name.  Say what you want . . I'm done with you all.  G'night." 

And damned right. Screw those witch hunters.

No one talks about the $325 million he's donated to cancer research, nor the cancer victims to whom he has given the precious will to fight and win.

Lance Armstrong had testicular cancer with lung and brain metastases, and seizures from them.

That man went through it all: Surgery, chemotherapy, radiation and took the Tour 7, SEVEN times! I will stand and tip my hat anytime he goes by.

@Mumblefratz: 100% correct.

on Aug 24, 2012

The only evidence they have is testimony of people that were actually caught doping with the same stuff they've accused him of not only using, but doling out to them in the first place.  He passed the same tests they failed.

 

Bullshit.

 

That said, no one fights the USADA and wins.  That there's a fight means they've already been assumed guilty.  All Armstrong could do to help himself is "confess" in return for fewer sanctions.  His former buddies that got caught already used him as their way out of punishment.  Hamilton got off with just his Olympic medal being taken away, something the IOC would have done anyway, and did do later.  It also helps his book sales if Armstrong is disgraced.  Landis is in a similarly beneficial situation, no comparable action on the part of the ADA against him.  Armstrong has no bigger fish to fry.

on Aug 24, 2012

Sounds like something needs a due process.

on Aug 24, 2012

You do know there IS NO political [or other] advantage to be had [for the UCI] in stripping a person's results years AFTER an event, not when the very act indicates some failing in the system at the time.  The results were/are done and dusted.  The only on-going result from 7 Tour victories is to Armstrong's bank balance.  The reason the issue has come to light NOW rather than then is clearly [a bit of] finger pointing and subsequent proficiency in testing methods.

Changes to drug restrictions obviously can't be retrospective.... but transgressions of then-current restrictions certainly can....as that appears to be the case here.


He's certainly not being victimized.....how many entrants got their bums kicked this year alone?

A reasonable aside:  Statisticians have published work in significant publications calling into question the entire doping process for making decisions from shoddy statistical inference.  This stems from the fact that doctors and lawyers generally have horrid understanding of advanced statistics, and yet they are using statistics to back their judgement and their decisions. It's commonly called the prosecutor's fallacy.  

Here is an article about one such piece published in Nature .  Unfortunately the Nature article itself is behind the paywall.  I don't follow the sport, so maybe they've improved their standards and knowledge since the article was published a few years ago. 

The legitimacy of their testing process and the seemingly witch-hunt like zeal they've gone after Armstrong for years are both giant red flags to taking the agency at their word though.  At least in my mind.  

Like the others, I would happily buy the man a beer, for his charitable work and for what he went through, if I ever had the chance.  

on Aug 24, 2012

Well, I did have an opinion which I believed to be valid....until Mumblefratz showed up with the facts.

I think I'll shut up now.

on Aug 24, 2012

You're perfectly entitled to your opinion, Wiz. We'll never lurve ya one whit less.

Only if you agree with us.

on Aug 24, 2012

 

World governing body, the International Cycling Union (UCI), is yet to say if it intends to follow USADA's lead. It had previously backed Armstrong's bid to challenge their authority.

Case of wait and see now which way they go .

on Aug 24, 2012

Zubaz
It's also possible that he didn't dope and that he's just tired of fighting a fight he can never win.
 My thoughts exactly, since there has been * no evidence*.

on Aug 24, 2012

Passing a drug test means nothing if there is other evidence.

For example, in women's track events the world records for 100m, 200m, 400m, 800m, 1500m, and 10,000m are all held by athletes who are known or suspected to be 'drug enhanced', yet there is no proof as they have passed all the relevant drug tests.

on Aug 24, 2012

Except they've accused him of taking the same substances they caught other people taking with those same tests he passed.  This isn't a case of we think he's using something new that we aren't testing for yet.  They took it to a grand jury and couldn't get an indictment, the saying that a grand jury will indict a ham sandwich isn't for nothing.

 

It's a self defeating case, which is why all the other organizations have looked into it and decided nothing was there.  If someone didn't have a bee up their ass at the ADA, they'd have done the same.

on Aug 24, 2012

As to what will really happen that's still quite a bit up in the air. As I mentioned the UCI claims jurisdiction over the cycling world and the ASO is the governing body of the Tour de France itself, both of which feel they should be involved if there's to be any stripping of Tour de France titles.

However while it is true that the USADA does not hold any direct control over what the UCI does it does exert some influence over the UCI which is signatory to the WADA (World Anti-Doping Agency) as is of course the USADA. To add further complication to the matter the WADA has an 8 year statute of limitations which by my calculations would put Lance's Tour de France wins from 1999 to 2004 beyond the statute of limitations and only the 2005 win and 2009 3rd place in jeopardy.

The by laws of the USADA or WADA (I'm not sure which) require that in any action taken without a hearing (as in this case) the USADA needs to supply a "reasoned decision" to all parties involved which in this case would be at least the WADA, the UCI, Lance himself and perhaps the ASO as well.

The UCI's position is that it has no comment on any of these proceedings at least until it receives and has time to digest the "reasoned decision" of the USADA. What it does after that will probably depend upon what's in the "reasoned decision".

In any case this is obviously a topic in which I have a reasonable amount of interest and have been following the discussions going on in various cycling blogs as well as other non cycling related on line discussion and I would characterize most of it as supportive of Lance. In any case my opinion is that this is a witch hunt of some minor nameless bureaucrat at the USADA and casts the USADA in a worse light than it does Lance.

on Aug 25, 2012

Like most US quangos the USADA has no authority whatsoever. How they can claim to be able to strip someone of titles is unbelievable and a complete embarrassment.

Leave it to the correct international bodies to make any decision, though I suspect they now feel awkward and somewhat irritated by the public actions of the USADA. Perhaps it's the USADA who should have their titles removed...

on Aug 25, 2012

Guys...this is real simple. Until this committee produces some irrefutable proof of doping. Here is the fact. He crossed the finish line before everyone else in all the events where he was stripped of his medals...which doesn't change the fact that he crossed the line first. And until this committee produces some proof the lack of medals means nothing.

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